> The possibility that some people miss this, period, is hurtful for me to contemplate.
Sounds like you caught some de novo self-replicating memetic prion disease while doing gain-of-function meditation research. Take this cocaine pill twice daily to strengthen what remains of your ego and this pain will go away.
> The possibility that some people miss this, period, is hurtful for me to contemplate.
I had very similar feelings of sadness when I would run into these types of obstacles. I’ve tried to turned this around to one of discovery and excitement by dropping breadcrumbs of a greater idea or different view point for people that I meet.
It’s a wonderful feeling when you introduce a new idea, concept, philosophy and you see someone’s eyes light up as they process the feeling. It’s very rewarding.
As always, great writing. The hint of something (maybe) similar emerged for me a few days ago.
I had a big event coming up, the kind you get nervous about, the kind that makes your stomach feel funny and your heart race a little. As I sat there feeling funny, it dawned on me: maybe the point isn’t to trick yourself into thinking you’re not nervous or become robotic, maybe the point is to embrace it as a beautiful part of life. A life that would be boring if you didn’t feel these things! At the event itself, when I’d catch myself feeling nervous, I’d try to sink into it instead of chase it away.
I’m not transformed or anything but I can tell something’s there that needs to be explored further. Or I missed the entire point and I’ll delete this comment later.
It's really inspiring to read about your ongoing progress. Whenever you drop one of these updates, I want to ask you about everything and nothing. Maybe I should actually drop you an e-mail some time.
thanks so much for writing about this. i feel very fortunate to be in touch with someone having these sorts of experiences who also has such a developed talent in prose
This is like the big divergence I have with the Buddhists: I don't think this sort of thing is the point. Whatever state Jesus, or Buddha himself, were in, I think it wasn't this. But if you found your heart's desire, so be it.
Oh to be clear I have no idea if this is a flavor of what historical Saints experienced
But there is an interesting phenomenon where trip reports of spiritual experience sound remarkably different across centuries and traditions; that alone is quite remarkable
Intuitively I feel this as well. But I'm not sure. There's definitely a tension between West and East on this, a fundamental difference. I've always been attracted by the East because it is arguably an easier spiritual path to get into if you come from a secular worldview. However, even from the accounts of people far along the journey, it feels like a piece of the puzzle is missing, and over time the more religious perspectives of the West seem more and more insightful to me. Maybe you can relate.
One of the spiritual figures I most respect, René Guénon, said that it is really very difficult for a Westerner to understand anything from the East: Eastern spirituality is the product of a very different mentality.
I do think the Eastern spirituality we get in the West is very bastardized, for the most part. Guénon said the great limitations of the Westerner are sentimentality and individuality, and you can see how many Westerners try to bend spirituality into service of these two, regardless if they pursue a Western or Eastern modality.
I loved this so, so, so very much and shared it with a few friends on this awakening journey who loved it too. It motivates me to get back on the cushion and enjoy the flow of life in the meantime. I cannot wait for that judging part of mind to fall off and see what all the fuss is about! :)
Sasha, your meditation posts have been a light in the darkness for me, thank you! As someone who feels very constitutionally unhappy, neurotic, and ego-bound, your writing is a source of great encouragement that things can be different.
My two central difficulties currently are:
a) I’m so ADHD that I struggle to meditate consistently, and
b) I feel deep fear that once all my bullshit drops away I’ll stop caring about things that are important to me (e.g. I won’t want to be a writer anymore or care about researching weird niche intellectual topics, and that would be Bad). I know this is probably just an example the ego being afraid of dying on some level, but… well yeah, I’m afraid of dying.
I don’t know if you have any thoughts about those particular challenges, but in any case thanks again for the work you do, and congratulations on the wonderful new state of being. I would say ‘you deserve it’ but I suppose everyone does!
a) if you're adhd you might have to obsess about your practice to make it work for you. the phrase "you have to fall in love with your practice" comes to mind. and meditation isn't just long periods of sitting still, maybe you can incorporate it into things you love to do.
b) it will change you, and you don't really know for sure how it will. you're unlikely though to turn into someone unrecognizable to yourself if you already love what you do and if that love is real. in fact by working spiritually you're letting that love reconstitute you.
I can’t emphasize enough how powerful it can be to drop your ideas about practice should be and find ways to fit it to your life. Can you do 2m of mantra practice every time you enter a particular room in your home, if there’s a sticky note to remind you? That could be enough to get the ball rolling
"You have to fall in love with your practice" -- this is very intriguing! I've been practicing meditation daily for about a month now following The Mind Illuminated technique. I started with 15 minute sessions, and I'm now up to 20 minutes. It generally goes well for brief periods (I successfully clear my mind), but by the end I'm usually painfully bored and impatient. I'm starting to feel very avoidant about it.
Any advice for how someone can fall in love with their practice? I want to keep going with this, but it'll be easier if I can find some joy in it.
EDIT: I'm now reading the linked post with advice for beginning meditators -- I think this is exactly what I need right now.
I don't want to knock Adyashanti, who is awesome, but this is such a gift, because it's so fresh and experiential. I've had similar spiritual puberty experiences that didn't last probably because I just didn't have the guts to share "that day when I realized my body was really just a skin pocket." But you've inspired me to risk some loneliness in service of greater connection. Thanks!
This was way outside my depth and well worth the swim—thank you. But please—don’t let that hotel become part of your cosmology. It does not sound like a healthy place.
Awesome. So resonant. I love the simple call to action for those who find themselves in the 7th mansion—where the only question left to ask is how can I help.
> This experience made me understand missionary religion for the first time in a deep, intuitive way. It is staggering to imagine that this is somewhere in the consciousness of all the billions of people who have lived. It’s tragic to see your friends and loved ones experiencing a sense of incompleteness, of worthlessness, when you understand the fundamental error of this, when you see what they are really made of, but know there’s no way to convey this that would be understood.
I wish I could give them the moon :).
I think there is a sense in which to exist is to suffer
A strong sense in which there is no suffering
A strong sense in which suffering is better
A strong sense in which everyone is always free
A strong sense in which there is no one who is suffering
A strong sense in which suffering is horrible and I want nothing more than to end it
A strong sense in which suffering is beauty and existence.
Reading this was very, very useful for me. Thank you for taking the time and care to try to put into words something that is experiential in a way that concepts and words simply can't capture - you can't explain to someone what chocolate takes like, they have to taste it to know. I haven't had an lasting shift out of ego identity but definitely getting glimpses more and more often. Not sure if a lasting shift will happen but, thankfully, I seem to be able to let go thinking that must happen. It may or may not. I'm already benefiting from not taking much personally anymore. That's a beneficial loosening.
Sasha, have you come across the research at NonSymbolic.org yet? They're a large-scale study of meditators, especially those who gesture at some kind of enlightenment. It might seeve you well to look into their "Location 3" and see if they've got any useful information for you: https://www.nonsymbolic.org/location-3/
Ah, spiritual materialism is a good topic! Chögram Trüngpa wrote a very good book on the subject, if you happen not to have come across it before. Thanks for sharing!
Inspiring me to keep meditating knowing I could experience my own version of this one day. But not sure what I love more the post itself or all of the comments. Thanks for writing this and for starting such fascinating conversations about spirituality.
Yeah, Luke 17:21, a lot of the time. I still get psyched out by fear of death related stuff tho. And, there's a lot of stuff I have to deal with I just don't like, like writing a thesis atm. I'm just hoping I can find a job that's mostly fun for me, or create one or two.
> The possibility that some people miss this, period, is hurtful for me to contemplate.
Sounds like you caught some de novo self-replicating memetic prion disease while doing gain-of-function meditation research. Take this cocaine pill twice daily to strengthen what remains of your ego and this pain will go away.
> The possibility that some people miss this, period, is hurtful for me to contemplate.
I had very similar feelings of sadness when I would run into these types of obstacles. I’ve tried to turned this around to one of discovery and excitement by dropping breadcrumbs of a greater idea or different view point for people that I meet.
It’s a wonderful feeling when you introduce a new idea, concept, philosophy and you see someone’s eyes light up as they process the feeling. It’s very rewarding.
As always, great writing. The hint of something (maybe) similar emerged for me a few days ago.
I had a big event coming up, the kind you get nervous about, the kind that makes your stomach feel funny and your heart race a little. As I sat there feeling funny, it dawned on me: maybe the point isn’t to trick yourself into thinking you’re not nervous or become robotic, maybe the point is to embrace it as a beautiful part of life. A life that would be boring if you didn’t feel these things! At the event itself, when I’d catch myself feeling nervous, I’d try to sink into it instead of chase it away.
I’m not transformed or anything but I can tell something’s there that needs to be explored further. Or I missed the entire point and I’ll delete this comment later.
Don’t delete, this is 🔥
You are onto something.
It's really inspiring to read about your ongoing progress. Whenever you drop one of these updates, I want to ask you about everything and nothing. Maybe I should actually drop you an e-mail some time.
[encouragement]
🙏🙏🙏
thanks so much for writing about this. i feel very fortunate to be in touch with someone having these sorts of experiences who also has such a developed talent in prose
This is like the big divergence I have with the Buddhists: I don't think this sort of thing is the point. Whatever state Jesus, or Buddha himself, were in, I think it wasn't this. But if you found your heart's desire, so be it.
Oh to be clear I have no idea if this is a flavor of what historical Saints experienced
But there is an interesting phenomenon where trip reports of spiritual experience sound remarkably different across centuries and traditions; that alone is quite remarkable
There are as many ways as there are hearts of men, say the Sufis.
Intuitively I feel this as well. But I'm not sure. There's definitely a tension between West and East on this, a fundamental difference. I've always been attracted by the East because it is arguably an easier spiritual path to get into if you come from a secular worldview. However, even from the accounts of people far along the journey, it feels like a piece of the puzzle is missing, and over time the more religious perspectives of the West seem more and more insightful to me. Maybe you can relate.
One of the spiritual figures I most respect, René Guénon, said that it is really very difficult for a Westerner to understand anything from the East: Eastern spirituality is the product of a very different mentality.
I do think the Eastern spirituality we get in the West is very bastardized, for the most part. Guénon said the great limitations of the Westerner are sentimentality and individuality, and you can see how many Westerners try to bend spirituality into service of these two, regardless if they pursue a Western or Eastern modality.
I loved this so, so, so very much and shared it with a few friends on this awakening journey who loved it too. It motivates me to get back on the cushion and enjoy the flow of life in the meantime. I cannot wait for that judging part of mind to fall off and see what all the fuss is about! :)
Sasha, your meditation posts have been a light in the darkness for me, thank you! As someone who feels very constitutionally unhappy, neurotic, and ego-bound, your writing is a source of great encouragement that things can be different.
My two central difficulties currently are:
a) I’m so ADHD that I struggle to meditate consistently, and
b) I feel deep fear that once all my bullshit drops away I’ll stop caring about things that are important to me (e.g. I won’t want to be a writer anymore or care about researching weird niche intellectual topics, and that would be Bad). I know this is probably just an example the ego being afraid of dying on some level, but… well yeah, I’m afraid of dying.
I don’t know if you have any thoughts about those particular challenges, but in any case thanks again for the work you do, and congratulations on the wonderful new state of being. I would say ‘you deserve it’ but I suppose everyone does!
my 2 cents
a) if you're adhd you might have to obsess about your practice to make it work for you. the phrase "you have to fall in love with your practice" comes to mind. and meditation isn't just long periods of sitting still, maybe you can incorporate it into things you love to do.
b) it will change you, and you don't really know for sure how it will. you're unlikely though to turn into someone unrecognizable to yourself if you already love what you do and if that love is real. in fact by working spiritually you're letting that love reconstitute you.
This is a perfect response that I totally co-sign
I can’t emphasize enough how powerful it can be to drop your ideas about practice should be and find ways to fit it to your life. Can you do 2m of mantra practice every time you enter a particular room in your home, if there’s a sticky note to remind you? That could be enough to get the ball rolling
Thanks both, this is such a gentle and helpful reframing of what I’m doing 💛
"You have to fall in love with your practice" -- this is very intriguing! I've been practicing meditation daily for about a month now following The Mind Illuminated technique. I started with 15 minute sessions, and I'm now up to 20 minutes. It generally goes well for brief periods (I successfully clear my mind), but by the end I'm usually painfully bored and impatient. I'm starting to feel very avoidant about it.
Any advice for how someone can fall in love with their practice? I want to keep going with this, but it'll be easier if I can find some joy in it.
EDIT: I'm now reading the linked post with advice for beginning meditators -- I think this is exactly what I need right now.
As a few wise friends have said to me on this topic: do what feels alive for you
I’ll also ask the question: what feels alive for you?
I don't want to knock Adyashanti, who is awesome, but this is such a gift, because it's so fresh and experiential. I've had similar spiritual puberty experiences that didn't last probably because I just didn't have the guts to share "that day when I realized my body was really just a skin pocket." But you've inspired me to risk some loneliness in service of greater connection. Thanks!
This was way outside my depth and well worth the swim—thank you. But please—don’t let that hotel become part of your cosmology. It does not sound like a healthy place.
Fortunately, paradise seems to be mobile and not restricted to LA short term rentals
Sure, but if I ever meet God, I’m hoping it’s not on a polyester bedspread with a view of the parking lot. ;)
Sasha, have you found your way to Saint Teresa de Avila’s Interior Castle yet?
Yes; it's wonderful and strikes me as deeply accurate.
Awesome. So resonant. I love the simple call to action for those who find themselves in the 7th mansion—where the only question left to ask is how can I help.
Castles, oxen, take your pick ;)
> This experience made me understand missionary religion for the first time in a deep, intuitive way. It is staggering to imagine that this is somewhere in the consciousness of all the billions of people who have lived. It’s tragic to see your friends and loved ones experiencing a sense of incompleteness, of worthlessness, when you understand the fundamental error of this, when you see what they are really made of, but know there’s no way to convey this that would be understood.
I wish I could give them the moon :).
I think there is a sense in which to exist is to suffer
A strong sense in which there is no suffering
A strong sense in which suffering is better
A strong sense in which everyone is always free
A strong sense in which there is no one who is suffering
A strong sense in which suffering is horrible and I want nothing more than to end it
A strong sense in which suffering is beauty and existence.
A strong sense in which
Reading this was very, very useful for me. Thank you for taking the time and care to try to put into words something that is experiential in a way that concepts and words simply can't capture - you can't explain to someone what chocolate takes like, they have to taste it to know. I haven't had an lasting shift out of ego identity but definitely getting glimpses more and more often. Not sure if a lasting shift will happen but, thankfully, I seem to be able to let go thinking that must happen. It may or may not. I'm already benefiting from not taking much personally anymore. That's a beneficial loosening.
Sasha, have you come across the research at NonSymbolic.org yet? They're a large-scale study of meditators, especially those who gesture at some kind of enlightenment. It might seeve you well to look into their "Location 3" and see if they've got any useful information for you: https://www.nonsymbolic.org/location-3/
Ah, spiritual materialism is a good topic! Chögram Trüngpa wrote a very good book on the subject, if you happen not to have come across it before. Thanks for sharing!
Inspiring me to keep meditating knowing I could experience my own version of this one day. But not sure what I love more the post itself or all of the comments. Thanks for writing this and for starting such fascinating conversations about spirituality.
I'm loving seeing everyones take on it.
Yeah, Luke 17:21, a lot of the time. I still get psyched out by fear of death related stuff tho. And, there's a lot of stuff I have to deal with I just don't like, like writing a thesis atm. I'm just hoping I can find a job that's mostly fun for me, or create one or two.