As you know, having children was top priority for your father and me. Around the time I met him, I read an article that said that when it came to having children, "You're either indifferent or obsessed" and advised doing it only if you were obsessed. We were obsessed. (An old friend and her husband decided, after some years of marriage, to be a very good aunt and uncle to the children of their several siblings rather than having their own. He hotly denies that they were "indifferent," and he has a point.) Having children made us a family, which I found intensely satisfying. Those were tough years (mainly because of financial pressures)--but the marriage lasted, I think, because we shared the unspoken assumption that our main job in life was to get you and your older brother to the point where you no longer needed us: we didn't feel it was wrong to have individual dreams and aspirations apart from that, but where those clashed with your best interests, they took second place. And I don't regret the decision at all. That said, I often repeat my First Law of Motherhood, which is, "No union would allow this job." And among the six to eight women I consider my closest friends, about half of them are in long, apparently successful marriages where the couple have chosen not to have children.
My mother came across a study late in her professional life of long-married couples who hadn't had children--I think, but am not sure, that this meant by choice. (She was a demographer specializing in long-term changes in family patterns.) Most of them didn't regret their decision, which surprised her.
One of the problems now, for women at least, is that bearing children IS a choice--an overwhelming one. Our GP at the time told me that most of the accidental pregnancies she confirmed were in middle-class married women--and that once she said "Yes, you're pregnant," the feeling in the room was one of relief, because the decision was out of the woman's hands. (Legal abortion was a bit more difficult in those days.)
I don't feel particularly wise about the subject, except to say that having children is not for the faint-hearted, and you should be very cautious about undertaking it if you have any serious doubts. You should be at least equally careful if your partner has doubts.
One memory stands out from that era. I had taken time off work to take either you or your brother to an appointment. It was raining, we were hurrying on foot to the subway station, and whichever one of you it was (can't remember--Bad Mother) was holding my hand and crying. Life was chaos, as usual. And I suddenly realized that I was happy. There was nowhere else I wanted to be.
My experience is that there is actually no way to know whether you’re going to be pleased to have kid(s) until you become a parent. Some people, like your physician and tons of my friends, KNEW they wanted to become parents beforehand, only to find out they aren’t particularly satisfied by their choice, or would even go back and make a different decision, if they could. I, on the other hand absolutely KNEW I did NOT want to become a parent. I wanted to spend hours buried in piles of books at the law library, researching obscure laws for a CA Supreme Court justice, taking the last BART train home at night, or if I missed it, sleeping on the couch in the lawyers lounge at the courthouse, starting all over the next morning with a 6:00 am coffee at Philz. And yet, the person I loved wanted a kid, so we did that. And I found something I never had in life, no matter how many important social issues I worked on, no matter how intellectually satisfying my life would have been had I stayed on the other path. I learned what it is to love someone else so much more than oneself, to experience an absolute melding with universal love that MDMA and mushrooms had only hinted at before, to know that without an instant’s hesitation I would die for this person. And the actual raising of the little human that contains this taste of the infinite is a hell of a lot of work, and requires parents to (sometimes) set aside the full actualization of their individuality, at least for a few years. Which, actually, I now recognize was what was needed for me. I’m not just adulting anymore, I’m an adult. And that feels better than I would ever have thought.
I'm a privileged parent of a happy, healthy six-year-old girl. I'm also an old queer dad (52, gay, white) who by my 40s had a whole lot of bucket-list experiences (mystical, spiritual, sensual, ethical, political, achievement, creative) and began to feel, a few years ago, that well running dry. I had fomo, based on my peer-age friends with kids. The love, the meaning, the spiritual adventure, the sense of continuity; I wanted to try that, to know what it is. And I found out. It's quite something. But it's also f---ing irrevocable. Anyone who says parenting is for everyone is an idiot, same with anyone who says it's not a sacrifice. I've given up a ton, mostly the sense of being well-slept, the ability to go on long meditation retreats, and the simple freedom to do whatever I want. It's a huge sacrifice and at times that can feel like regret - but I think with a bit of mindful inquiry, I see it's just yearning or wanting or even grief. Regret is a kind of story, like "I made the wrong choice." I didn't make the wrong choice, it was the right choice for me that carried significant negative as well as positive consequences. I was right - the love I experience now is a quantum leap from anything I knew before, and as you say in your piece, there's an other-centeredness that is profound and happiness-generating. But that comes with a lot of shadow: anxiety, parenting during Covid, climate anxiety. "Love" sounds all rosey but of course you know it isn't. Do you and your wife feel a yearning for the kinds of things I've mentioned (or others)? Are you willing to give up almost everything that gives your current life its freedom and flexibility? Are you willing to make that decision not knowing what it will be on the other side, because it is actually impossible to know or to predict? If not, stay free. If so, consider the things that are incompatible with that kind of freedom but can be of value in themselves. This is my first comment on someone else's substack (I'm too busy maintaining my own!) but I love your substack and this was generative for me.
Agree with lots of the comments here. Also want to point out that the journey of raising a child is long and some of it is very hard while some of it is amazing. You already know about the hard stuff..and yes, it is real. But, the person that is made from you and your wife, will astound you with their fresh new mind, observing things you never noticed, connecting words and things you never thought of. And all the amazing things you have learned in your life, you can teach them, so they can jump into life already where you are now when they are young adults. That’s what I’ve been able to witness in my life. For sure, it is a huge decision and there are no guarantees about how it will all go. There are many people who have had children and then find their way as a parent, every day, every year. It’s admirable to take time to make this momentous decision. Hope this helps a little.
I've reflected on this question as a woman nearing 30 and it's good to get your insight as well as your compilation of the insights of others. I have never felt strong maternal urges and although I think children are fascinating and provide joy, I don't often think about them or how they would add meaning to my life. People seem to imply a maternal instinct or desire is so natural and it always made me feel like I'm strange, but now I realize it ought to be a normal variance in inclination. Just like some people are physically infertile, perhaps some people are psychologically uninclined to children. That said, I do think actually having a child could disrupt a lot of those things, primarily that you will have this strong emotional attachment imposed on you so it would change your behavior. So yes, maybe it would allow me to experience love I couldn't possibly imagine (one of my pros for having kids), but... At what cost? I feel too attached to my personal goals to bring a child that would disrupt my ability to pursue those goals because I just know if I end up getting pregnant and having a child, the child will become a significant emotional priority.
As of now, the one major thing I feel like I would be losing is the reproduction of my genetic material (which seems to really be the only tangible thing I could achieve this way). Donating eggs seems like a viable option but I also know that can have some negative impacts on the body which I'm not keen on either.
it's kind of like this. say you weren't alive yet and had never been alive. someone comes and asks you, hey do you want to live in a body for a while? so hard to know, and even after decades, hard to know.
Love this conversation, and I think you’re asking all the right questions. I wasn’t a person who NEEDED to have a kid, and I’m sure my life would have been easier, or perhaps even happier, if I ended up not having one. And yet, I feel like parenting opened up a secret door in the house of my self, and now I have access to all these rooms I don’t know existed before. It increased my capacity for love, increased the depth of so many of my emotions, both good and bad. My ability to be patient, to feel compassion, to sit with discomfort, to laugh at my ego and de-centre it, all these things grew exponentially. Maybe you already get all that by meditating. Probably being a meditator would make you a better dad.
I often say that when people talked to me about parenting before I was a parent myself, I heard their words, and thought I understood. But now I realize that they were actually speaking at a frequency I couldn’t fully hear, like a dog whistle. After I became a parent, my ear expanded, and their words took on a completely different meaning.
I don’t say that to suggest that everyone needs to have a kid in order to understand some big mystical thing about their lives or the universe. Not at all. I don’t think everyone should have kids! But I do think that there is something untranslatable about the experience.
Whichever we choose will probably be both great and painful for different reasons, and there's never going to be a true way of knowing. Its a "Wild Problem" as Russ Roberts would call it
Sasha please, having collected all this dank data, do me a solid and clarify as best you can this confounder: to what extent did the parents that expressed dissatisfaction/cynicism/regret/worse re kids embody an orange mindset/worldview. Inlining the def I care about, to what extent are the folks not happy with having had kids inhabiting values/beliefs that scope the purpose of life in terms of maximizing their own personal achievement, success, status, etc etc?
I'm more interested in your vibe read here than in, say, some averaging calculation
I just finished reading Hannah's Children, by an economist (research assistant was a psychologist) - who has 8 kids. She interviewed maybe a dozen of the 5% of American women who have 5 or more kids.
She points out that in economic terms, a kid is an experience good. Wikipedia: "those that can be accurately evaluated only after the product has been purchased and experienced."
I see this a lot talking to people who are interested in but incredibly wary of having kids. They don't know what it's like.
I myself come from a large family, being the second of ten kids (no kids myself yet, sadly). Most people it seems are aware that having kids is a) hard and b) deeply meaningful. But no one I talk to is aware that kids are delightful.
Like, I distrust to some extent extreme valuations of things. Kids are the best thing ever that will give meaning to your nihilistic life, and also an incredibly soul-crushing experience that will drain your personality forever? Come on, people. Touch grass. Let go of some anxiety.
You're still living your life, just a bit differently, and now with kids. And they are so much fun. My siblings and I love swapping stories of funny things my 19 nieces and nephews have said or done. It's like our pastime. I wish more people knew about this part - but children are experience goods and people with just 1-2 siblings have never experienced it.
I definitely agree that many parents make it really hard on themselves. They try to be everything to their kids (partly because of our atomized society). And sometimes turn the kid into a little shit who's just a misery to be around.
One thing the Zen folks are particularly good at pointing out is that we're all much bigger than the fears inculcated in us by our disconnected little egos. We're already deeply connected to the world and the people around us, and as we expand (or realize our size) we get much happier. This is one reason Zen monks live such incredibly difficult lives, to break out of that constriction. Loving a small human can help too.
I have two nieces nearby and have been geeking out on the book "the carpenter and the gardener". There's some great stuff around the modern (and possibly harmful) invention of "parenting theory", learning, and being human that you may be able to add to your research. 😊 Plus, it was highly recommended by a human I trust (Derek Sivers).
Agree that there is a roll of the dice about how the personality of the new person in the relationship (the child) meshes with the parents.
Also, strong agree that rigid lifestyle choices often create problems!
We did no school, nor homeschool, nothing, nada until our kid expressed interest at 13. Having no grand agenda about "child development" probably cranked down the difficulty level by orders of magnitude.
That is an example of the life choices that can create a totally different experience than "standard American parent."
(I'm going to be doing some things at the Alembic starting soon, and my family might occasionally come, so you may have the opportunity to interview them in person about the experiences if you are interested.)
i appreciate you sharing your experience navigating this question and uncertainty. it's fascinating because there seem to be few areas that deserve more nuance and yet it so rarely receives it.
i completely agree with the ridiculousness of the “you must have kids” posts/perspective. at the same time, i think it's become quite popular to post about the negatives of having kids. there's a ton of dopamine to be farmed from fellow disgruntled and overwhelmed parents.
when I share about parenting with friends, I try to be as open and honest as I can be about all facets of it. but often it feels kind of futile. as you highlight so well, so much of it is deeply personal and situational. and it's even hard for me to still connect to the perspective i had (and even person I was) before we had a kid. to me, it's the ultimate example of how an experience and a life path will fundamentally change you in ways you cannot predict.
for me, I realized I was more interested in discovering who i would become through the journey of raising kids than i was worried about what I would lose. even still, it led to a lot of unexpected shifts like us deciding to relocate to be closer to family, deprioritizing other areas, and evolutions in friendships.
I think we should give everyone a lot of grace as they try to reconcile with the tension inherent in this choice.
> But fundamentally this is not my frame on life. I see my life as a creative process: As a bubble of consciousness ...
I think that, right there, is the very core of the issue. People who value having children fundamentally identity life with something larger than their own consciousness, with ancestors and descendants being central. Conversely, from a perspective of consciousness-centric utilitarianism, having children will often not make sense.
If you go back in the post and reread the dialogue with the doctor, she is also speaking from a consciousness-centric perspective, except that her hormones temporarily induced other desires.
The real issue here is more about fundamental philosophies of life than an empirical weighing of experienced costs and benefits.
I love and appreciate this conversation. My two cents: as a mother of two adult sons, your inquiry comes down to how and where you want to suffer. You know, the whole, "what kind of shit sandwich do you want to eat? (Mark Manson) Have kids and you will suffer in anticipated and totally unanticipated ways. Or, don't have kids and suffer in the expected and unexpected ways that a childless life plays out.
It is an oversimplification but also, I'm glad I made the decision to suffer in parenthood. I don't know if I could or would want to suffer for anyone else to the degree I have with my sons. I now believe parenthood is just one non-stop invitation to doing shadow work. Of course, you can do that work with or without a child but for me, parenthood was the unforseen (and initially resisted) fast track.
As you know, having children was top priority for your father and me. Around the time I met him, I read an article that said that when it came to having children, "You're either indifferent or obsessed" and advised doing it only if you were obsessed. We were obsessed. (An old friend and her husband decided, after some years of marriage, to be a very good aunt and uncle to the children of their several siblings rather than having their own. He hotly denies that they were "indifferent," and he has a point.) Having children made us a family, which I found intensely satisfying. Those were tough years (mainly because of financial pressures)--but the marriage lasted, I think, because we shared the unspoken assumption that our main job in life was to get you and your older brother to the point where you no longer needed us: we didn't feel it was wrong to have individual dreams and aspirations apart from that, but where those clashed with your best interests, they took second place. And I don't regret the decision at all. That said, I often repeat my First Law of Motherhood, which is, "No union would allow this job." And among the six to eight women I consider my closest friends, about half of them are in long, apparently successful marriages where the couple have chosen not to have children.
My mother came across a study late in her professional life of long-married couples who hadn't had children--I think, but am not sure, that this meant by choice. (She was a demographer specializing in long-term changes in family patterns.) Most of them didn't regret their decision, which surprised her.
One of the problems now, for women at least, is that bearing children IS a choice--an overwhelming one. Our GP at the time told me that most of the accidental pregnancies she confirmed were in middle-class married women--and that once she said "Yes, you're pregnant," the feeling in the room was one of relief, because the decision was out of the woman's hands. (Legal abortion was a bit more difficult in those days.)
I don't feel particularly wise about the subject, except to say that having children is not for the faint-hearted, and you should be very cautious about undertaking it if you have any serious doubts. You should be at least equally careful if your partner has doubts.
One memory stands out from that era. I had taken time off work to take either you or your brother to an appointment. It was raining, we were hurrying on foot to the subway station, and whichever one of you it was (can't remember--Bad Mother) was holding my hand and crying. Life was chaos, as usual. And I suddenly realized that I was happy. There was nowhere else I wanted to be.
Love, Mom
My experience is that there is actually no way to know whether you’re going to be pleased to have kid(s) until you become a parent. Some people, like your physician and tons of my friends, KNEW they wanted to become parents beforehand, only to find out they aren’t particularly satisfied by their choice, or would even go back and make a different decision, if they could. I, on the other hand absolutely KNEW I did NOT want to become a parent. I wanted to spend hours buried in piles of books at the law library, researching obscure laws for a CA Supreme Court justice, taking the last BART train home at night, or if I missed it, sleeping on the couch in the lawyers lounge at the courthouse, starting all over the next morning with a 6:00 am coffee at Philz. And yet, the person I loved wanted a kid, so we did that. And I found something I never had in life, no matter how many important social issues I worked on, no matter how intellectually satisfying my life would have been had I stayed on the other path. I learned what it is to love someone else so much more than oneself, to experience an absolute melding with universal love that MDMA and mushrooms had only hinted at before, to know that without an instant’s hesitation I would die for this person. And the actual raising of the little human that contains this taste of the infinite is a hell of a lot of work, and requires parents to (sometimes) set aside the full actualization of their individuality, at least for a few years. Which, actually, I now recognize was what was needed for me. I’m not just adulting anymore, I’m an adult. And that feels better than I would ever have thought.
I'm a privileged parent of a happy, healthy six-year-old girl. I'm also an old queer dad (52, gay, white) who by my 40s had a whole lot of bucket-list experiences (mystical, spiritual, sensual, ethical, political, achievement, creative) and began to feel, a few years ago, that well running dry. I had fomo, based on my peer-age friends with kids. The love, the meaning, the spiritual adventure, the sense of continuity; I wanted to try that, to know what it is. And I found out. It's quite something. But it's also f---ing irrevocable. Anyone who says parenting is for everyone is an idiot, same with anyone who says it's not a sacrifice. I've given up a ton, mostly the sense of being well-slept, the ability to go on long meditation retreats, and the simple freedom to do whatever I want. It's a huge sacrifice and at times that can feel like regret - but I think with a bit of mindful inquiry, I see it's just yearning or wanting or even grief. Regret is a kind of story, like "I made the wrong choice." I didn't make the wrong choice, it was the right choice for me that carried significant negative as well as positive consequences. I was right - the love I experience now is a quantum leap from anything I knew before, and as you say in your piece, there's an other-centeredness that is profound and happiness-generating. But that comes with a lot of shadow: anxiety, parenting during Covid, climate anxiety. "Love" sounds all rosey but of course you know it isn't. Do you and your wife feel a yearning for the kinds of things I've mentioned (or others)? Are you willing to give up almost everything that gives your current life its freedom and flexibility? Are you willing to make that decision not knowing what it will be on the other side, because it is actually impossible to know or to predict? If not, stay free. If so, consider the things that are incompatible with that kind of freedom but can be of value in themselves. This is my first comment on someone else's substack (I'm too busy maintaining my own!) but I love your substack and this was generative for me.
Agree with lots of the comments here. Also want to point out that the journey of raising a child is long and some of it is very hard while some of it is amazing. You already know about the hard stuff..and yes, it is real. But, the person that is made from you and your wife, will astound you with their fresh new mind, observing things you never noticed, connecting words and things you never thought of. And all the amazing things you have learned in your life, you can teach them, so they can jump into life already where you are now when they are young adults. That’s what I’ve been able to witness in my life. For sure, it is a huge decision and there are no guarantees about how it will all go. There are many people who have had children and then find their way as a parent, every day, every year. It’s admirable to take time to make this momentous decision. Hope this helps a little.
I've reflected on this question as a woman nearing 30 and it's good to get your insight as well as your compilation of the insights of others. I have never felt strong maternal urges and although I think children are fascinating and provide joy, I don't often think about them or how they would add meaning to my life. People seem to imply a maternal instinct or desire is so natural and it always made me feel like I'm strange, but now I realize it ought to be a normal variance in inclination. Just like some people are physically infertile, perhaps some people are psychologically uninclined to children. That said, I do think actually having a child could disrupt a lot of those things, primarily that you will have this strong emotional attachment imposed on you so it would change your behavior. So yes, maybe it would allow me to experience love I couldn't possibly imagine (one of my pros for having kids), but... At what cost? I feel too attached to my personal goals to bring a child that would disrupt my ability to pursue those goals because I just know if I end up getting pregnant and having a child, the child will become a significant emotional priority.
As of now, the one major thing I feel like I would be losing is the reproduction of my genetic material (which seems to really be the only tangible thing I could achieve this way). Donating eggs seems like a viable option but I also know that can have some negative impacts on the body which I'm not keen on either.
it's kind of like this. say you weren't alive yet and had never been alive. someone comes and asks you, hey do you want to live in a body for a while? so hard to know, and even after decades, hard to know.
Love this conversation, and I think you’re asking all the right questions. I wasn’t a person who NEEDED to have a kid, and I’m sure my life would have been easier, or perhaps even happier, if I ended up not having one. And yet, I feel like parenting opened up a secret door in the house of my self, and now I have access to all these rooms I don’t know existed before. It increased my capacity for love, increased the depth of so many of my emotions, both good and bad. My ability to be patient, to feel compassion, to sit with discomfort, to laugh at my ego and de-centre it, all these things grew exponentially. Maybe you already get all that by meditating. Probably being a meditator would make you a better dad.
I often say that when people talked to me about parenting before I was a parent myself, I heard their words, and thought I understood. But now I realize that they were actually speaking at a frequency I couldn’t fully hear, like a dog whistle. After I became a parent, my ear expanded, and their words took on a completely different meaning.
I don’t say that to suggest that everyone needs to have a kid in order to understand some big mystical thing about their lives or the universe. Not at all. I don’t think everyone should have kids! But I do think that there is something untranslatable about the experience.
Beautifully written, and your conclusion reminds me of Kierkegaard's quote on regret: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7141047-marry-and-you-will-regret-it-don-t-marry-you-will.
Whichever we choose will probably be both great and painful for different reasons, and there's never going to be a true way of knowing. Its a "Wild Problem" as Russ Roberts would call it
Sasha please, having collected all this dank data, do me a solid and clarify as best you can this confounder: to what extent did the parents that expressed dissatisfaction/cynicism/regret/worse re kids embody an orange mindset/worldview. Inlining the def I care about, to what extent are the folks not happy with having had kids inhabiting values/beliefs that scope the purpose of life in terms of maximizing their own personal achievement, success, status, etc etc?
I'm more interested in your vibe read here than in, say, some averaging calculation
I just finished reading Hannah's Children, by an economist (research assistant was a psychologist) - who has 8 kids. She interviewed maybe a dozen of the 5% of American women who have 5 or more kids.
She points out that in economic terms, a kid is an experience good. Wikipedia: "those that can be accurately evaluated only after the product has been purchased and experienced."
I see this a lot talking to people who are interested in but incredibly wary of having kids. They don't know what it's like.
I myself come from a large family, being the second of ten kids (no kids myself yet, sadly). Most people it seems are aware that having kids is a) hard and b) deeply meaningful. But no one I talk to is aware that kids are delightful.
Like, I distrust to some extent extreme valuations of things. Kids are the best thing ever that will give meaning to your nihilistic life, and also an incredibly soul-crushing experience that will drain your personality forever? Come on, people. Touch grass. Let go of some anxiety.
You're still living your life, just a bit differently, and now with kids. And they are so much fun. My siblings and I love swapping stories of funny things my 19 nieces and nephews have said or done. It's like our pastime. I wish more people knew about this part - but children are experience goods and people with just 1-2 siblings have never experienced it.
I definitely agree that many parents make it really hard on themselves. They try to be everything to their kids (partly because of our atomized society). And sometimes turn the kid into a little shit who's just a misery to be around.
One thing the Zen folks are particularly good at pointing out is that we're all much bigger than the fears inculcated in us by our disconnected little egos. We're already deeply connected to the world and the people around us, and as we expand (or realize our size) we get much happier. This is one reason Zen monks live such incredibly difficult lives, to break out of that constriction. Loving a small human can help too.
I have two nieces nearby and have been geeking out on the book "the carpenter and the gardener". There's some great stuff around the modern (and possibly harmful) invention of "parenting theory", learning, and being human that you may be able to add to your research. 😊 Plus, it was highly recommended by a human I trust (Derek Sivers).
Note: I am not a parent and won't be.
This was great and insightful in a way I didn't expect. Thanks!
Agree that there is a roll of the dice about how the personality of the new person in the relationship (the child) meshes with the parents.
Also, strong agree that rigid lifestyle choices often create problems!
We did no school, nor homeschool, nothing, nada until our kid expressed interest at 13. Having no grand agenda about "child development" probably cranked down the difficulty level by orders of magnitude.
That is an example of the life choices that can create a totally different experience than "standard American parent."
(I'm going to be doing some things at the Alembic starting soon, and my family might occasionally come, so you may have the opportunity to interview them in person about the experiences if you are interested.)
i appreciate you sharing your experience navigating this question and uncertainty. it's fascinating because there seem to be few areas that deserve more nuance and yet it so rarely receives it.
i completely agree with the ridiculousness of the “you must have kids” posts/perspective. at the same time, i think it's become quite popular to post about the negatives of having kids. there's a ton of dopamine to be farmed from fellow disgruntled and overwhelmed parents.
when I share about parenting with friends, I try to be as open and honest as I can be about all facets of it. but often it feels kind of futile. as you highlight so well, so much of it is deeply personal and situational. and it's even hard for me to still connect to the perspective i had (and even person I was) before we had a kid. to me, it's the ultimate example of how an experience and a life path will fundamentally change you in ways you cannot predict.
for me, I realized I was more interested in discovering who i would become through the journey of raising kids than i was worried about what I would lose. even still, it led to a lot of unexpected shifts like us deciding to relocate to be closer to family, deprioritizing other areas, and evolutions in friendships.
I think we should give everyone a lot of grace as they try to reconcile with the tension inherent in this choice.
> But fundamentally this is not my frame on life. I see my life as a creative process: As a bubble of consciousness ...
I think that, right there, is the very core of the issue. People who value having children fundamentally identity life with something larger than their own consciousness, with ancestors and descendants being central. Conversely, from a perspective of consciousness-centric utilitarianism, having children will often not make sense.
If you go back in the post and reread the dialogue with the doctor, she is also speaking from a consciousness-centric perspective, except that her hormones temporarily induced other desires.
The real issue here is more about fundamental philosophies of life than an empirical weighing of experienced costs and benefits.
I love and appreciate this conversation. My two cents: as a mother of two adult sons, your inquiry comes down to how and where you want to suffer. You know, the whole, "what kind of shit sandwich do you want to eat? (Mark Manson) Have kids and you will suffer in anticipated and totally unanticipated ways. Or, don't have kids and suffer in the expected and unexpected ways that a childless life plays out.
It is an oversimplification but also, I'm glad I made the decision to suffer in parenthood. I don't know if I could or would want to suffer for anyone else to the degree I have with my sons. I now believe parenthood is just one non-stop invitation to doing shadow work. Of course, you can do that work with or without a child but for me, parenthood was the unforseen (and initially resisted) fast track.
Good luck in your search!